Katie: Welcome back to The BusinessMakers Overtime Show, heard here and online at theBusinessMakers.com. We're here with a great Special Features section in Chapter 3 where we're going to be talking about passion. Passion in the workplace.

Esther: That's right and not just passion in the workplace because we've kinda talked about that before but more the science of passion.

Katie: Yes.

Esther: Which is a very cool topic.

Katie: So we got a little geeky and found this really fantastic blog post by a guy named Carl Newport who's actually an MIT postdoc and the website is Study Hacks: Demystifying Sustainable Success. And this guy is all sorts of crazy brilliant.

Esther: Yeah, he really is.

Katie: And he uses really long sentences and big words and I'm really impressed by all of them.

Esther: Which I like.

Katie: Yeah, me too.

Esther: I like that and I also think that what I like about his blog is that it's research-y.

Katie: It is.

Esther: There's a lot of data.

Katie: Yeah, I mean -

Esther: Like you actually researched for this post. This is what's missing from blogging.

Katie: It really is. So instead of just Googling a couple times, which I don't know some bloggers in this room, me, are sometimes guilty of - he's like, "And then there's this study 30 years ago and then I read this 500-page book -

Esther: Which I read in a book.

Katie: - over the weekend just for fun." [Laughter]

Esther: Right. So I admire that and I actually learned a lot.

Katie: Yeah, Cal's awesome.

Esther: - from reading this.

Katie: Yeah, I absolutely did, too. So in this post, Cal is actually making some interesting notes talking about the way that people are taught to view how they should select a profession or how they should select a degree in college and he makes an interesting note saying that if you go to amazon.com all top five of their career-focused books are all, without a doubt, dedicated to helping us fund the right quote/unquote jobs. You know, match up your personality. Personality profiling test, you know, to, you know, get your dream career that's gonna bring you great wealth and happiness and success. And he's not really diggin' it.

Esther: Uh uh.

Katie: so and really what he's saying is these bestsellers, they're founded on the belief that matching your work to personality traits and interests is the only way to find a job you love. And he calls this the introspection principle because it elevates the act of self reflection to be the important factor for making big life decisions.

Esther: Huh.

Katie: And I really dig - and again, we're gonna be posting this blog link on our Facebook page at facebook.com/overtimeshow and he really takes a stab at the way a lot of us look at what makes a job great or what makes a job being worthy of our passion. Specifically looking at motivations. So a lot of us, I mean of course it is important to know how to motivate coworkers and employees if you're the big boss around town, but he says that it's not all about being motivated with external things, like money or pizza on Fridays.

Esther: Right.

Katie: And in fact there's been a number of scientific tests again, wow an actual academic writing something on a blog, amazing!

Esther: Uh huh.

Katie: What they've discovered that both humans and lab rats are actually slower to complete tasks once they know that there's a reward involved.

Esther: Right and they tested this on people as well.

Katie: Yeah.

Esther: There was a study 20 years later after - actually, the study was done on monkeys, I believe. They tested some monkeys -

Katie: Monkeys, yes.

Esther: - and they -

Katie: Monkeys, that's right.

Esther: - when the monkeys were rewarded for doing a task, they actually got worse at doing the task. And they tested this - someone named Edward Dessy, he was a graduate student at Carnegie Mellon, he tested the effect on humans and found similar results that the presence of cash made them worse at solving creative puzzles.

Katie: That's - I mean so exactly opposite -

Esther: Yep.

Katie: - of what -

Esther: Opposite of the way we think. You know?

Katie: Exactly. We're just conditioned to have this whole other mindset.

Esther: Yep.

Katie: So instead of focusing on these motivations as a major part of loving what you do; finding that passion in the workplace - Cal takes a look at what's called the "self-determination theory," I feel just so intellectual just reading this stuff right now. [Laughter]

Esther: I know. This is super, super geeky.

Katie: So at a very high level, the self-determination theory makes a very simple claim and that is to be happy, your work must fulfill three universal psychological needs. Number one, autonomy; number two, competence; and finally relatedness.

Esther: Huh.

Katie: And so to go in a little bit more detail, autonomy is really all about what control you have over how you fill your time. You know, when you're gonna work; what you're gonna do when you're working. Really having that freedom and flexibility which I totally get. You know, if someone's standing over me, micromanaging me, I hate my job. I hate it.

Esther: Yes.

Katie: And the second psychological need, competence, is really talking about the importance of being able to master the things that you're working on. So to quote a psychologist, Robert White, he says that humans have a propensity to have an effect on the environment as well as to attain valued outcomes within it.

Esther: Huh.

Katie: So basically we like knowing that we're gonna be able to learn what it is we're supposed to be doing. We're gonna learn how to be better and more brilliant at it and that's really what's gonna bring a lot of job satisfaction. It's something worth knowing. It's something we're hungry to do and to be good at.

Esther: Well, ultimately, he suggests that all the things we think about our careers, about working for passion and all this, are not true. He thinks that what gives you passion, what gives you success, personal success, passion in your life, what will give you a complete life, is to master a skill that will set you apart from everybody else. And he actually cites a case of a woman who is a data analyst who is very, very skilled at data analysis, lives, you know, in this beautiful place, you know, kind of away from everything and -

Katie: Like in Hawaii or somewhere crazy.

Esther: - yeah and it's somewhere in Hawaii and she picks and chooses her projects and she's paid very handsomely for coming in, mining your data, giving you something amazing to do with it, and then flitting off into the sunset.

Katie: Leaving.

Esther: Leaving you and -

Katie: To go scuba dive.

Esther: - right to learn how to fly planes.

Katie: Or travel.

Esther: And -

Katie: Yeah.

Esther: -and she has time to pursue her passions at that time but that's what's giving her this full life satisfaction is not to pursue her passions in the business world but to pursue something in the business world that she can be unique at and then go do her passions on the side and maybe not get paid for them but actually learn them and love them and not have to worry about making any money doing 'em.

Katie: Yeah. Really pretty cool.

Esther: Yeah.

Katie: And I would totally dig living in Hawaii. I mean, that would be fine. [Laughter]

Esther: Yeah. That's true. I mean he even says in this article that the world doesn't owe you happiness and it's true. You know you kinda have to make your own happiness and if your career isn't giving you happiness, you know, that's up to you to make that change.

Katie: Exactly. Exactly. And it's interesting 'cause whenever I was doing some other reading on, you know, passion in the workplace and how to love what you do or find what you love to do, blah, blah, blah, so, so many people talk about not allowing your passion in life to live in the workplace or to live in a job. I mean it has to be in you and let's just get all hippy, new-agey, here - like if you're not a passionate, happy, well-balanced person, just as you are, doing whatever it is that you do - whether you eat granola with me and we do yoga together in the morning or whatever, you know, you hang around and you like to watch sports and, you know, that's what you're into - if you don't have it in you already, you're never gonna find it in anything.

Esther: That's right.

Katie: In relationships, in, you know, friendships, in the workplace, so it's really about being happy with yourself and then identifying things that you can be amazing and really rise to the top of your field at and then finding those rewards in life that aren't always the extra day of vacation, that aren't, you know, getting a higher paycheck. You know it's just, it's so much self connectivity and oh -

Esther: That's right.

Katie: - just let's all hug.

Esther: And it kinda brings me back to what Nina was saying in our show last week that balance is not a 50/50 split. You know?

Katie: Yeah.

Esther: There's a lot of other factors that go into having a balanced life.

Katie: Exactly.

Esther: And he cites a great example of why there are so many CEOs in the world in this article. He talks about how CEOs love their job. They're great at their jobs but they're miserable. They're stressed. They're, you know, they're tired. They're anxious. It's because they don't have this autonomy that we're talking about. They don't have the ability to go and perform, you know, do whatever else they wanna do, but for the most part a lot of times they're very much involved in the day-to-day function of the business. They can't just leave. A lot of people are depending on them.

Katie: Yeah.

Esther: So I think that he's right. I mean, it's a very interesting example. I never thought about it. So I guess the basic point is that if you really wanna be successful, learn how to do something and learn how to do it well.

Katie: Uh huh.

Esther: You know? You aren't gonna just walk into an office and ask for a job and expect to get the projects you want, expect to get the pay you want, expect to get the vacation you want and the freedom to go do whatever else you wanna do in your life - and if that's what you want, you better make that happen for yourself. Go read more books and participate in higher learning things, you know, classes and whatever it's gonna take to -

Katie: Absolutely.

Esther: - get you outta where you are right now if you're miserable.

Katie: Exactly. And you don't have to listen to the naysayers. The people that, you know, whenever you're deciding what you wanna study in college who say, "Oh that's not practical," or, "That's not gonna work."

Esther: Right, right.

Katie: Like do what you do, girl. Like do what makes you, like, completely ridiculously happy, that will drive you for the rest of your life to just be better and better and stronger and stronger.

Esther: I agree.

Katie: Yeah and we can't wait to hear all of your stories of passion and success and world-changing activities on all the places that we frequent online and would love to frequent them with you. Of course, Facebook. We're on facebook.com/overtimeshow. We're also on Twitter at twitter.com/overtimeshow. And certainly last but not least theBusinessMakers.com/overtime. So drop us a line. Leave us some comments.

Esther: Come on.

Katie: Yeah, we, we wanna know. The good, the bad, the passionate, the boring, like we wanna hear it all.

Esther: Yeah. Well thanks for joining us this week. You've been listening to The BusinessMakers Overtime Show, heard here and online at theBusinessMakers.com. I'm Esther Steinfeld -

Katie: - and I'm Katie Laird.

Esther: We'll see you next week.

Katie: See ya.