Katie: Welcome back to the BusinessMakers Overtime Show heard here and online at the BusinessMakers.com. We're here in Chapter Three ready to talk about your flaming passion.

Esther: Yes. I actually found this article on the Harvard Business Review, one of my favorite sites. We've talked about it on this show actually as a great resource. It was talking about - well, it cited several examples. One that I'll mention is Dr. Donald Berwick. He is nominated by President Obama to head Medicare and Medicaid. Now I find this very interesting because he's a doctor, he's a pediatrician who wanted to improve health care outcomes in patients. So he actually took to applying TQM, which is total quality management. Total quality management is like going into a factory and making sure all the parts are working correctly. He wanted to apply those principles to health care.

Katie: Oh. So taking like industrial standards and putting them to a whole different industry.

Esther: Mhmm. Exactly. Well, as you can probably imagine he met with a ton of resistance. He's had to fight tooth and nail along the way trying to get these things in place.

Katie: Wait, wait, wait. Like doctors have egos or something? Why would this be a problem? I'm just kidding. Sorry guys.

Esther: No; that's exactly right. So his passion for the field and for what he was doing. Not so much whether or not he was working for Obama -

Katie: Right. Or that people liked him.

Esther: Right. Or if people liked him. But really what he believed could improve the quality of life in people that are sick. It got me thinking, this article because I found that so many CEOs and executives are all about making names for themselves. We talk about personal branding. We talk about that being important. While I agree it's important, where does it become too much where you're no longer about the passion for what you're doing and more about wanting to have some kind of fame for nothing. Not to say that people are doing nothing. It's just that when you're passionate about health care and saving lives, eventually you might get famous because you're so good at it.

Katie: Or that is your personal brand. It's not about having a strong personal brand. Your brand is that you are so completely 100 percent into this driving passion in your world, but yeah, it's not about the name. It's about the results.

Esther: Right. I think that's where people get tripped up. When we talk about personal brand, personal brand is more about like you said, promoting what you do best, showing people what you do best and not in a fake kind of way.

Katie: Right.

Esther: I think there's a lot of people who are using social media tools to promote themselves and have no - that they say the proof is in the pudding. It's like what are you doing. When you get contacted by an expert in something in whatever field it is you kind of wonder. You almost want to see some proof of results. At this point I'm always skeptical of an expert because I don't know in any - doctor, lawyer, whatever, you can create a beautiful website and you can create a very fruitful Twitter account and get lots of followers, but what are you really doing.

Katie: Exactly.

Esther: Could you win a case for me in the courtroom. Could you detail my car in the best way. Could you perform an operation on me. These kinds of things are the things that I wonder. So that got me thinking about passion and whether or not passion is the driving force or not these days.

Katie: In Rosa Beth Cantor's article there's a line actually in the very first paragraph that I really liked where she says, 'passion separates good intentions and opportunism from real accomplishments.'

Esther: Mhmm.

Katie: I like how you tied in personal brands 'cause if we don't get a lot of company leaders, not a lot, but figure heads like say Jack Welch. He ran GE, didn't always have the best results ever, but he was such a huge brand, he was such a big deal that it's kinda' hard to know is that where his passion was. Was he hired because he had this fire in his belly throughout his career or was he a name that they were hoping would open other doors. So it's looking towards those real accomplishments is just so key. It's just so key.

Esther: And the author, Rosa Beth Cantor, she asks 12 questions, which I think some of them are really, really interesting. Questions you should ask yourself when you're trying to determine if you really have passion for something or if you're just doing it for the wrong reasons. So do you feel strongly about the need for this. Is there a need for what you're doing. Does the idea fit my long held beliefs, values and convictions. Imagine you are this big name. Would you go work for a -

Katie: Like a small non-profit just because they're doing what it was you're passionate about versus getting a six-figure or seven figure salary.

Esther: Right; exactly. Actually a friend of mine Tweeted something, a guest on the show, Richard Schaeffer, Tweeted the other day, 'You know you have passion for something if you'll get on a plane for it or you'll miss a flight for it.'

Katie: Ah.

Esther: I thought that was kind of interesting.

Katie: I like it. Actually another wine guy that we really love who's also a former guest on the show, Gary Vaynerchuk. His book Crush It is actually all about cashing in on your passion. What he says is that the only real way to make money and be successful, a true success is to monetize your passion. Running a business, starting up a non-profit or a start-up, it's really hard work that I don't really think you can do without this passion.

Esther: Mhmm. There's a great quote. A long time, who knows who even said it at this point. I don't know. I'm sure I could find it, but it says, 'Figure out what you love and then figure out how to make money doing it.'

Katie: Ah. Exactly.

Esther: Same concept. If you're stuck behind a desk crunching numbers for somebody else and you hate it and all you wanna do is knit for a living, figure out how to knit for a living.

Katie: Right. Who's gonna buy a $35,000.00 scarf so that you - no. But yeah; what are you gonna bring to, what's your niche. So I know that a lot of people stumble upon, whenever they're trying to make that transition to something they're passionate about, there are a lot of concerns around salary or industry standing or how is this gonna reflect on what I've done in the past or my family and blah, blah, blah. One of the things that I like to look at whenever really including passion in your career ambitions is the fact that your passion really defines your success. So maybe it really is important for you to consider yourself a successful person to make a giant paycheck, have an amazing 401k, business class travel everywhere you go. Maybe that says a lot about what your passions are. Is that important enough for you to forego really doing what burns inside you? I hope not.

Esther: I hope not, but if fame is what you're after you have plenty of avenues to do it.

Katie: So to wrap this up, I love Gary Vaynerchuk's reasoning for writing this book, Crush It, all about his passion. He says, 'I had to write this book because it drives me crazy to know that there are still people out there who haven't figured out that they don't have to settle.' You don't have to settle. You don't have to settle just 'cause you want a big paycheck. The world is your oyster.

Esther: Yes.

Katie: It's a deep --

Esther: One of the questions is am I committed to seeing this through over the long haul. That means sticking it out even when you're not making as much money as you'd like to be maybe.

Katie: Yeah; so make it happen.

Esther: Yeah. Go out and get your dreams. I guess we'll leave you on that inspirational note from Gary Vaynerchuk.

Katie: That's right. Exactly. Wish we had a glass of wine. That would be perfect right now.

Esther: I know. So join us next week if you will and actually before next week it would be great if you would join us on Twitter at Overtime Show, Facebook at Facebook.com/overtimeshow and of course our lovely website, The BusinessMakers.com/overtime.

Katie: Don't be a stranger.

Esther: Yeah. You've been listening to the BusinessMakers Overtime Show heard here and online at the BusinessMakers.com/overtime. I'm Esther Steinfeld.

Katie: And I'm Katie Laird.

Esther: And we will see you next week.

Katie: See ya'.