Russ: This is The BusinessMakers Show, heard on the radio and seen online at TheBusinessMakers.com. It's guest time on the show and I have a very special guest with me today, I have the owner and CEO of Westside Tennis and Fitness Center, Linda McIngvale. Linda, welcome to the BusinesMakers Show.

Linda: My pleasure, Russ. Good to see you.

Russ: Well, good to see you as well. Now to set the records straight from the very beginning, Linda McIngvale is the other McIngvale, meaning that she is the wife to the very famous Houston entrepreneur, Jim McIngvale. And I've got to tell you, it must be really interesting, when the two of you are ever home with just each other is it like a competition which business you talk about?

Linda: I just think it depends on which one has something to talk about at that time.

Russ: Okay. So actually-

Linda: I probably talk more than him about business.

Russ: Oh wow, so you get his input on Westside and he does you on Gallery Furniture?

Linda: Right. I'm involved still with Gallery to a certain extent, so those conversations are normally around things he wants me to do or be a part of. Mine are always more the whole, you know, "What do you think about this?"

Russ: Okay. Okay, well, so let's get back to the reason we're here. Tell us about Westside Tennis and Fitness Center.

Linda: Well, Westside is a club that is - it's a tennis and fitness center, started as a tennis club and we've kind of transformed into a family sports and fitness center and is pretty much the business that I'm most involved with right now.

Russ: Okay, and since we describe you as owner, that means that this was probably an acquisition a few years ago?

Linda: Right. I think it was around 1995 or 1997 and it was more Mack's decision. Probably we didn't know anything about tennis or we might not have bought the company.

Russ: Okay.

Linda: But one of those things where he was sponsoring a tennis tournament there and the people running it were saying, you know, "The club's probably going to close and they're not going to have the tournament anymore," and he kind of thinks, you know, every town should have every sport there is in the world. So we bought the club not knowing the business, not knowing that they had already sold the tournament. So it kind of has been a long road, interesting one.

Russ: Okay. Okay. And for those of our listeners and viewers that are not totally familiar with Houston, Texas, Westside Tennis Center - and Fitness Center is and was a very serious tennis center. I mean there were huge tournaments played back in the beginning, correct?

Linda: Correct. I mean Westside itself was the original place for the women's tour. So if I'm not mistaken, the very first women's tour years ago when the Virginia Slim started was played at Westside, so back when Billie Jean King and them very first started the tour.

Russ: Right.

Linda: So it was a small tournament for a while there, and then I think it kind of moved to a few other places back and forth, and then they brought the Virginia Slims back to Westside. And that's - the final year that that was there was the year that we sponsored it, and then we became aware of the club. I didn't even know it existed.

Russ: Okay. Okay. So the club has a multitude of indoor and outdoor tennis courts, and also has a fairly large stadium, which the stadium was already there when you all bought the club?

Linda: Oh no, no, no.

Russ: It wasn't, right?

Linda: We put the stadium in in 2004 and '05 we had the Masters Cup here. So we had had the Clay Courts; Mack had brought, now you know Mack, he wants to do everything big, he wants to have everything there is, and it was a little disappointing when we bought the club to find out that we had lost the tournament. So the thing was like, "Okay, fine, I'm going to bring a tournament there." So he worked really hard, we brought the Clay Court Championships there, and then we had that starting in 2000. 2001 we had the Davis Cup Semi-Final against Spain, and then after that it kind of started, you know, you know you're in that tennis business, they think you might spend some money doing some events, they're all going to come talk to you. So we ended up with the ATP Masters Cup, which is the year-ending major event for the guys, the top eight players in the world, and we had that for two years, and that's when we built the stadium, was for that.

Russ: Okay, that's when the stadium came. Well, it was impressive what was happening there for sure. And I find it quite humorous that you all didn't know that much about the tennis business.

Linda: Oh no.

Russ: Okay. And at that time was there even much of a fitness component to the club?

Linda: No, very little. Very, very little. Had a small building that had a very small basketball gym and some racquetball courts and things, but basically it was just a tennis club at that point. It needed a lot of renovations and it was, you know, the membership levels were down, so whether anybody used any of that prior, I don't know.

Russ: Okay. And then so it was after the McIngvales owned the club that you brought the Houston Rockets there for their practice facility, right?

Linda: Correct. Correct. Yes, we did that.

Russ: And that lasted a few years, didn't it?

Linda: Right. Right. You know, Mack and I were sponsors of the team, we were good friends with a lot of the players, and you know, at that time the team kind of went back and forth, HBU and different places to practice. It was kind of like on the plane they'd say, "Where are we practicing tomorrow?"

Russ: Right. Right.

Linda: And so a couple of the guys said, you know, "Y'all should let us practice here at the club," and then when they came out to look at it it was like, "Well that" - you know, "We can't practice in the gym you have. So then of course, you know, Mack said, "No problem, we'll build an NBA" - "No problem, we'll build that, a stadium, whatever." So we built that. And it was fun. It was fun having them there and it was good for the players. But not business-

Russ: Right, it was just public relations.

Linda: It wasn't as good a business deal as we thought it would be, but yeah, it was fun.

Russ: Okay. Okay. So in the very beginning, when it was decided to do this, was it decided, "Okay, Linda, this is what you're going to do and how you're going to spend your days"?

Linda: Usually that's how it is. That's okay. "You're going to build a stadium. You're going to build a Rockets facility, and you have three months to do it," yes, that's normally how it is.

Russ: And you spend lots of your time there now, right?

Linda: I do. I mean, you know, being in the retail business or years, you know, you kind of get used to those long hours, and so to me a normal day is going in at 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning and staying until you close at 9:00 or 10:00. So you know, yes, unfortunately I'm in that habit, but yes, so I spend most of my time there.

Russ: Okay, now I'm fairly familiar with the club, and boy has it ever morphed over the years. But before we get to that, you even had two ex-Presidents of the United States do a presentation there at one time, wasn't it?

Linda: Yes. Yes. That - you know, if you ever have to say what was the neatest thing there, that was.

Russ: That was it.

Linda: That was, after the tsunami we did the Bush-Clinton campaign here in Houston, which was probably my favorite thing we've ever done. I mean just feel good, you know, for the community, and that was such a good community involvement that at the end we asked President Clinton to come down, and him and President Bush both came to give a presentation to all - to the kids that had helped raise money and some of the big dollar people, so that was really fun. Very interesting.

Russ: Well, I - there's been some very famous people that have shown up there other than tennis players over the time, but it's - now let's talk a little bit about this change. I sense that now tennis, or big tournament tennis is not important, not happening. You still have lots of serious tennis players that are members, but you've really grown the fitness center and also kind of the entertainment category, correct?

Linda: Right. I mean, you know, we had the club for all those years; we really, really tried to build the business up. And, you know, we've done a lot of business training in our lifetime and like to think of ourselves as business people. And eventually I just kind of said, you know, if you're losing money every year doing the same thing you just can't keep doing this anymore.

Russ: Right. Okay.

Linda: And it's the dynamic of the business, you know, it's a systems issue. You know, a certain number of people play tennis, they'll only drive a certain distance to play tennis, you have to have economics to join. So I think we kind of hit that area of we're not going to go past this membership level. And it just never ever ever went there; we went a full year with the membership level not really changing, and we said, "We can't keep losing money at this." It was not profitable and _________. So we decided, you know, that we need to change the dynamic of the club and then we decided to make it more of a sports club as well, and so bring some things in that families would like, you know, add some swimming pools and soccer and changed our grass tennis courts to soccer and got rid of indoor tennis courts to basketball and volleyball and things like that. And it's made a dynamic change in the business.

Russ: Well, I will commend you; you've done it very, very well. But one more thing before I leave tennis, are you not going to have any of these big-time tournaments there ever again?

Linda: No, I don't think so. You know, unless you can go get a major event, which you can't get in the tennis world. The ones that make money people have and they're not going to get rid of.

Russ: Right.

Linda: You know, when you have one of those events it takes just a certain period of time and all the players are kind of the same players then that are coming. And the tennis fan does not want to come see those same players all the time.

Russ: Okay. Wow.

Linda: If you're not - you know, it kind of got to the point that it was like, you know, "We don't want to come unless you have Nadal coming." Well, you know, I can't get Nadal to come; I've tried. You know, we can't get him to come, so.

Russ: Okay. All right. Talking with Linda McIngvale, the owner and CEO of Westside Tennis and Fitness Center. And we'll be back with more with Linda McIngvale, owner and CEO of Westside Tennis and Fitness Center after this. This is the BusinessMakers Show, heard on the radio and seen online at TheBusinessMakers.com.

Russ: This is the BusinessMakers Show, heard on the radio and seen online at TheBusinessMakers.com. And continuing on with Linda McIngvale, owner and CEO of Westside Tennis and Fitness Center.

Now, Linda, I know for a fact that if here were a competition with all the fitness centers probably in the world and it was based totally on who had the best furniture in their club, there is no question that your place would win. Man, that's' like a showcase over there.

Linda: Yeah. Well we know a great place to get some.

Russ: Right. Well, you know, when I think about the business, and it's kind of unique to have this independent, locally-owned fitness center. It seems like in 2012 you don't see that; all you see are these national chains that are everywhere, popping up in many places, and they must be your competition and they must be pretty tough to compete against.

Linda: Well, and they are. I mean they know the dynamic of that fitness business. And that's why we really, although we are a tennis and fitness club and we do have an incredible, I think, fitness facility now and fitness components, and it's why we don't really want to compete in that venue with them. I mean we try not to be just a fitness club.

Russ: Okay.

Linda: We try to be more, you know, "You want to come to our club and work out? We've got a great facility for you to do that. But while you're there leave your kid in our nursery or let them go to our family zone or they can go to the batting cages or the basketball or the volleyball or whatever it is." So there are so many other things that our main demographic is more of a family looking for their entire - in their entire family to use the club, not just themselves as the adults working out.

Russ: Okay. Well my familiarity with just the fitness business, once again, was that it seemed like they were on this perpetual mission to get new members, which you might be as well. But also, you know, they always seemed to be really having quite a bit turnover rate. I mean do you see, by focusing on families, that that sort of makes that part of the business a bit more stable?

Linda: Yes, it does. And tennis as well too. I mean the typical, you know, well the last time I looked at the numbers a typical fitness club has a turnover of probably 20 to 25-percent. And a tennis member hardly ever leaves your club, you know, that is their life. You know, people that play tennis as a lifetime sport, it's great exercise, but it's also super social. So after they play tennis they come up and have a drink in the bar or they sit down and eat lunch or dinner together. So that's a very social sport, so those people will kind of stay with your club anyway on the general rule.

And the families do too. You know, their kids get there, they love it, they kind of grow up in the club. We aren't really looking for the younger demographic that's going to be always looking for the best deal on the fitness club or whatever like that, but we do have, you know, the knowledge that we need to have incredible workout facilities and programming for the people, you know, so the family members can use that as well.

Russ: Do the tennis people maybe not like the emphasis that they see growing out there in the fitness category?

Linda: You know, I have to say that at the beginning when we made changes we took away a lot of tennis courts, so you know, the first initial reaction from the tennis members were like, "Are you kidding me?" But on a general rule all the time we get comments like, you know, "This is really great. We really love the club now. We're glad to see what you changed it to be." And they understand that you can't just - and, you know, that fitness person isn't fighting for the tennis court with them, so to them they've got their tennis courts they can play on. If I added members and they were just tennis members they wouldn't have the tennis courts to play on because they can only have so many. So it works out well.

And we've started a massive renovation this last year that's been more, you know, a look to the club and a feel of the club, and the tennis members have really, really liked that; they like the changes in that area as well.

Russ: Cool. Cool. Now as you know, this is a show about businesspeople and entrepreneurs and innovators, and we always like to go down this path, they like to hear CEOs answer questions like these. What has been the most difficult thing that's happened since you've been there as CEO, the biggest challenge as a businessperson?

Linda: Well, I mean I think the biggest challenge was to understand the business. And I think a lot of, you know, my husband's an entrepreneur and that's great. And you think you can do everything; you know, you think you know every business and all businesses are the same. And going into there was really difficult. You know, it was hard, 'cause, you know, sometimes Mack might say, "Well you need to do this, this, and that." Well, that might work great for the furniture business, but it doesn't work so great for, you know, this business, where there's a lot of components that are the same, obviously. You know, the way you have to have your cultures in your business or the way you run them in your systems and your processes. The dynamics of the business itself are always going to be uniquely different.

And that was a different, completely different business for me, and so it was a little difficult to understand the tennis at the beginning. And so that was probably the hardest thing, was to understand the tennis dynamics of business.

Russ: You know, as you were saying that, Linda, it reminded me something about the interview that I had with him that was, jeez, at least four, maybe five years ago. Didn't he run a line of fitness centers before he came to Houston or something? Wasn't he in that business?

Linda: Yeah, quite a few years ago. Yeah.

Russ: Okay. Okay. So did any of that experience play a role here?

Linda: I don't really think so much. I think, you know, he's kind of - you know, Mack's kind of one of those natural people that understand that something is not the same 10 years from now or 20 years from now or 30 years, I don't want to age myself here, but, you know, than it was. I mean he doesn't believe anything is the same as it was 30 days ago. So he doesn't ever like to rely back on that's what it was back then.

Russ: Okay. Okay. So I have seen the renovations that were - that are taking place, and they are quite significant. What's in store for the future, though, for Westside Tennis and Fitness Center?

Linda: Well I think there's always that dynamic of having everything everyone else has. So just a few fitness components and things I'd like to add, maybe indoor pool and some squash courts. And then my ultimate major next thing would be, if I can get it where I want it to be, is to change the stadium into a water park.

Russ: My goodness. Wow. Okay.

Linda: Yeah, a little different.

Russ: And that would be quite a significant renovation. Wow.

Linda: Yes, it would be. I mean our goal for the club is to make it feel like if somebody walks in there they kind of feel like they're going to a resort on a vacation and they can work out and have fun or do sports or enjoy themselves and their families.

Russ: Okay. Really, really cool. Now before I let you go I have this standard question that we ask almost all guests. Let's imagine that a young, aspiring entrepreneur is watching your interview right now. Do you have any kind of general advice you might give him or her about what they ought to be doing to prepare for what you do?

Linda: You know, I think the main thing a lot of people don't do is to go out and properly collect the data that they need to make good decisions. You know, we all like to make these emotional decisions, this is going to be great, and things like that. And I think data is important; you need to know your demographic, who you're trying to sell, where you're at. And then once you kind of know that, then I think that you're on a better track than the typical, you know, everybody likes to go by their gut.

Russ: Right. Okay. Well, Linda, I really appreciate you dropping in and sharing your story with us.

Linda: Thank you. It's nice being with you today, Russ.

Russ: You bet. That's Linda McIngvale, owner and CEO of Westside Tennis and Fitness Center. This is the BusinessMakers Show, heard on the radio and seen online at TheBusinessMakers.com.