Russ: This is the BusinessMakers Show, heard on the radio and seen online at the businessmakers.com. It's guest time on the show and I'm very pleased to have with me the cofounders of BrightBox, Jason Arcemont and Patrick McDonough. Guys, welcome to the BusinessMakers Show.

Patrick: Thanks.

Jason: Thank you very much.

Russ: You bet. Well tell us about BrightBox.

Jason: Sure! BrightBox is a dynamic brand-marketing firm. What that means to us we look at things a little bit differently. Where a lot of creative marketing firms will just produce projects, we look at things more from a holistic point of view on, you know, what is the purpose of this project, how does it relate to your audience and, in doing so, we wanna have a lotta services under one roof, so we'll package web development, video production, 3-D animation, graphic design.

Patrick: Yeah, I think there's a lotta companies in town that say they're a full-service marketing entity but, I mean, we truly have everything you can think of. We have a print company; we have a trade-show exhibit company. We have web designers -

Russ: Right.

Patrick: - videographers, all that stuff.

Russ: My God!

Patrick: Yeah, right at --

Russ: How many - how many employees now?

Jason: Just over 35 now.

Russ: Oh, okay, so that's quite a load. I've had other people, sorta, say that they do everything. In fact, I've had some say they did everything and they, kind of, had to change it because it because it became too much of a problem. Has it worked for you guys or --?

Jason: So far, the model's workin' out pretty well!

Russ: All right, all right.

Jason: You know we try to stay focused on our one core thing that we do is brand management, you know?

Russ: Okay.

Jason: So with that as the center, everything else we offer is - is, kinda, more seen as an ancillary deal. It's the things that we hafta to do to make sure that the consistency is there for the brand, that the brand's done properly and so we constantly bring in the resources and the people we need to. Lemme show you something, all right?

Patrick: Yeah, when we first started - it's funny, you meet people and they're like, "Well, what do you specialize in?"

Russ: Yeah.

Patrick: And when we first started we kinda did everything but we didn't know how to communicate that without just sounding like a jack-of-all-trades and where I kinda clicked. Well really we're just managing the brand and whatever's underneath that is just kinda ancillary.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: Like the brand's, kinda, Number 1.

Jason: Yeah, even now people are like, "So whaddaya do?" And it's just like, "We can just start listing. You got five minutes? We'll just list everything that we do."

Russ: Okay, so but how do you - how do you define brand management?

Jason: Well, it's a little tricky because a lotta people still - you know we tell 'em we do brand-marketing and they're always like, "Well, what does that mean?"

Russ: Right.

Jason: And you know like I said, for us it's really getting in and with every client, every relationship, every project, we kick it off with doing this brand analysis where we really dive into the culture of the organization, who that target audience is, how they communicate to 'em, how they need to be communicated to and then we make sure that every piece, whether it's a direct mailer or a website, even an email blast, it all has that same, you know, the principles that relate back to that culture.

Patrick: That three W's we're always talkin' about, that "Who you are," "What you do" and "Who you do it for." You know we want everything to communicate those three things and if you can't pick that up just lookin' at, you know, brochure or website, within a few seconds, then, you know, you're probably failing, you know, what the market's supposed to be doing.

Russ: Okay now when you describe what these 35 people do, I mean, you have the trade, you have the web-development stuff, it seems to me that you're gonna have some people sitting there with nothing to do at certain times unless there's overlapping of skills.

Jason: Sure, sure, well, you know, as a young company, even entrepreneurs we wear a lotta hats so we require our staff to wear a lotta hats.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: You know and really more than it was, kinda, thought like that, whenever we hired people, they start seeing opportunities and really caring and being proactive for our clients and so they're going out and learning or gaining those resources or knowledge to bring to the table and, all of a sudden, the person hired just to do writing is now doin' social media and is monitoring Twitter accounts and it turns into a great environment.

Patrick: Yeah, we always, always preach to our employees like if you just don't earn money by being with the company for a long period of time but if you bring more value and can do more then you're more valuable to us and we're gonna reward you for that so that's what we appreciate.

Russ: Okay talking with Jason Arcemont and Patrick McDonough, the cofounders of BrightBox. Now cofounders, you two together founded the company.

Jason: Yep.

Russ: And do you two equally own the company?

Jason: Yup. I think we're kinda little unique in that sense. We're a 50/50 split, which was, I think, prolly a little tough for both of us when first put this --

Russ: Sure!

Jason: -- this company together.

Russ: Sure

Jason: But you know I think in doing that, it's made us a real powerful group.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: We hafta rely on each other. It's kinda like a marriage.

Russ: Absolutely it is!

Jason: And knowing that my creative, which is what Patrick handles for us and from the business development, I think a lotta companies are put together where the founders are both creative people --

Russ: Right.

Jason: and nobody's focused on biz dev or --

Russ: Right.

Jason: you know --

Russ: Vice-versa

Jason: Yeah, vice-versa and so, with us, you know, I sell it and I know that when I hand it over to my team to get done, you know, I have a 50-percent partner in interest and equity in making sure that these projects get done right.

Patrick: I think, you know, we've had some other business partnerships over the years and you start to recognize how good a partnership is when you have some others to compare it to and I just can't tell ya how lucky I feel just noticing we've clicked, business-wise, and we have really similar philosophies, you know? We have complementary, not overlapping, skill sets and we just need to always be on the same page as, you know, where we wanna go with where we want the company to be and we learned partners aren't always like that, even if they say they are at the beginning, there are still little things that come up, and like, "Oh wow."

Russ: Right!

Patrick: "We should talk about that al little bit more."

Russ: Right!

Patrick: Well I mean I - ya know, there's gotta be disagreements sometimes and you guys pull that for a vote and what happens if it's one-to-one? Who's the tie-breaker and - well, it usually comes down to whose sandbox it's in.

Russ: Okay.

Patrick: If it's creative and we don't quite agree, you know, Jason might defer to me but if it's sales I'm always gonna defer to Jason.

Russ: Okay.

Patrick: You know I see it different but this your thing, you know? I'm gonna trust that you know what you're talkin' about --

Russ: Okay.

Patrick: That's sorta what it comes down to.

Russ: So that is kind of unique, your backgrounds definitely cover both important categories of the business. I mean is that sorta what brought you together?

Jason: Yeah, definitely. You know whenever - we had both worked at an agency together in the past and we had both left those agency on different - different terms.

Russ: Right.

Jason: And kinda got started dabbling in our own environments for a while and I was sellin' stuff and I couldn't find anybody to produce it or --

Russ: Yeah.

Jason: or anybody that I could trust to produce it, maybe is a better way to say it.

Russ: Right.

Jason: And I think Patrick was havin' the same issue where he was wantin' to do more work, wantin' to do more work, but he didn't really have the time to go out and find the jobs and so we're like, "Man, you're doin' it and I'm doin' it, let's bring this together and put this company together and" --

Patrick: Yeah, two great tastes that taste great together, kinda.

Jason: That's it!

Russ: Okay so you mentioned an agency, so you were working together at an advising agency, is that right?

Jason: Sure, sure.

Russ: Okay now that's sort of what brings me to another round of questions in the category of business that you guys are in. I mean the advertising world, the web-development world, this whole thing of brand-marketing and logos has all, sort of, morphed into a stable full of companies that probably are your competitors but it seems like some have strengths in certain categories and some have strengths in other categories. I mean is that the kind of company that you find yourself competing against now when you're taking on a new client?

Jason: Sure, you know, honestly, nine times out of ten, we're really not competing with anyone.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: You know where we're coming in is we're offering a solution. You --

Russ: Okay.

Jason: You're outsourcing all of these services to five, six, ten different companies.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: Your budgets are being slashed over the past few years, your marketing departments don't really exist. Let BrightBox come in, we'll oversee all of that, we can offer all of those services under one roof, there's a better consistency of visual and messaging efforts, you know, so a lotta times we're outbidding and earning jobs that a lotta solo little companies had because we can manage and control all of it in one environment.

Russ: Okay, all right.

Jason: It's a powerful tool.

Russ: Talking with Jason Arcemont and Patrick McDonough and we'll be back with both of these cofounders of BrightBox after this. This is The BusinessMakerss Show heard on the radio and seen online at thebusinessmakers.com.

Russ: This is The BusinessMakerss Show heard on the radio and seen online at thebusinessmakers.com, continuing on with the cofounders of BrightBox, Jason Arcemont and Patrick McDonough. Now guys as we were talking a while ago about how you start a project, you go in and you do a total brand assessment, which could be fun sometimes, maybe boring sometimes, too, but - but I assume you go in there with several of your staff and you really find out what's the business about so, I assume, from a business perspective, while you're in there, you're billing your time with the people that are in there and that's how BrightBox makes revenue, is that right?

Jason: Yeah, sort of, you know where I think we're unique and where we get a lotta push in the market is, you know, we package all of our stuff up. One thing that we wanted to stay away from was crazy, backend billing or crazy itemized invoices --

Russ: All right.

Jason: where have all these people and all these hours billed to it and so we've done this enough. We know what things cost, we know what the hours are gonna be and so we, typically, bulk it up into one price so the client knows exactly what they're gettin' into before we get into it.

Russ: It's upfront. Before you even go in and assess the brand, you might say, "Okay, here's how much it's gonna cost."

Jason: Exactly, exactly.

Russ: Okay, that's interesting.

Patrick: I think where we kinda got to versus getting away from the hourly billing is you start to look at what the value of the deliverable is.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: It sounds pretentious but, I mean, you look at a Picasso and it's worth a lot because Picasso did it

Russ: Right.

Patrick: So you look at - okay, this is a BrightBox project with our staff and our talent and our resources and our background and experience and what is that worth to the client?

Russ: Right.

Patrick: And because there's a lotta things we can do quicker and better than our competition but if we just charged by the hour we'd be underselling it because the value out there is worth a lot.

Russ: Okay, okay but I assume that sometimes you might package it up, here's the price and they go, "Whoa, we can't afford that."

Jason: Sure!

Russ: Has that ever happened?

Jason: Yeah, well, especially as we're growing.

Russ: Sure, yeah.

Jason: You know when we first started there wasn't anything that we wouldn't do.

Russ: Right, right.

Jason: As is most small companies but, you know, as we've grown, there's definitely, there's been those clients that haven't met a fit.

Russ: Right.

Jason: So to speak.

Russ: Right, now I would be curious just, you know, I mean, I'm curious because I do this show and I see business people all the time and business models, when you go in there sometimes and do a brand assessment, do you , sometimes, say, "Well, why are they doing this?" Or "They shouldn't even be doing - they shouldn't even be in this business," --

Jason: Right.

Russ: And if you do see something like that, do you tell 'em?

Jason: Oh, definitely, definitely.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: That's a big part of it and so a lot of it's for us. I'd say probably 50 percent of the brand analysis is for us to get to know 'em.

Russ: Right.

Jason: But really what we find is it's for them just as much.

Russ: Right.

Jason: You know you ask a question and you go around the table and everybody answers it completely different but to have that one day, that one time, for the next 18 months, we're smackin' the gavel, the true answer for this question is X.

Russ: Right.

Jason: And we write it up on a big sticky pad and we put it in the assessment and it really just brings some clarity to the team.

Patrick: Yeah, that's amazing. You go to these companies and people that have worked there 10, 20 years, and they all have different ideas of what their companies are doing.

Russ: Oh, yeah.

Patrick: You know, what their purpose is.

Russ: Sure!

Patrick: What their image should be.

Russ: Sure.

Patrick: I mean it's just completely different. It's good to see 'em, light bulbs start goin' off, people start clicking, like, "You know? Yeah, that makes sense. That's not how I was seeing it but we can all be on that same page, then."

Russ: So it's almost like you're offering your consulting service as well.

Jason: Definitely, definitely, yeah.

Russ: Consulting service and the strategy of the company.

Jason: Yeah, a big part of what we do.

Patrick: Yeah, that's kinda how we pitch it is consulting and really you can charge more for being a consultant than delivering a website.

Russ: Sure.

Patrick: Because you have a different higher-level strategy and thinkin' behind and so we come in there and we're telling them what they should be doing instead of a lot of agencies will come and say, "Well, here's three websites, pick your best."

Russ: Right.

Patrick: Well, we'll come in with one website and say, "This is the perfect website for you, you know? Trust us on this."

Russ: Okay, all right, cool, now, a while ago, when I, sort of, alluded to the morph thing that was happening in the business, we're ad agencies, we're takin' on web development and web developer guys were calling themselves marketing companies and stuff. You sort of implied, Jason, that you don't feel like you even have competition and yet you usually do well. Now I for one think you probably do and there's probably some - and there's probably some people watching right now that say, "No, these guys have competition." What separates BrightBox, in your mind, from those other companies?

Jason: Sure, sure, well, I think the obvious thing, just from the outside looking in, what separates us is the fact that we have all of those tools under one roof, with one group, having one creative director, being able to oversee a lot but, also, you know, what separates us is just the drive. We're a young company, we have young people, young staff that are all excited and passionate about being the dominate marketing agency here in Houston and so I do not acknowledge our competition and tell 'em, you know, to look out because every single person on our staff is committed to making sure that we --

Russ: Cool!

Jason: become the Number 1 agency in this town.

Russ: Cool!

Patrick: Yeah, I think a lotta people have the same ideas and say they offer the same thing but it comes down to execution.

Russ: Sure.

Patrick: You know that's why we say we don't have any secrets because our competition has to execute it the way we do.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: And it's amazing how - how many times we get business because we responded quicker even if it was something, a bid that went out to a buncha people, we respond the next day with ideas and quote and we just see how hungry you are and how passionate and it doesn't come across like a sales, like we're trying to convince them.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: It comes across as we're excited and passionate about it and they wanna work with us because of that.

Russ: Right, well, I've - my background is such that I've experienced what you're talkin' about a couple a times that execution matters so much that you should be able to open your books to your competition. This is how we're gonna do it and --

Jason: Bring it on, right.

Russ: you'll still be able to go out and execute it and then even the team comments that you made, I mean, I've experienced that, back in the very beginning of my career, when I went to work for IBM, I noticed that everybody there was so committed to the cause that it's like their self esteem went up about 20 percent because they were with this cause that they believed in and it was really cool and then that in the business world is awfully powerful so you gotta keep that goin', though!

Jason: Well I think the one thing that we started noticing was, you know, on a weekly basis, the number of people that were emailin' or calling, asking to join the team.

Russ: Oh, wow!

Jason: It's like, "All right, man! We're finally doin' it! This culture's catchin' on!"

Patrick: Right, people wanna work for us.

Russ: That's fantastic!

Jason: The weird thing of, you know, a year, a year and a half into it, we get emails, "I've heard a lot about you and you guys sound like you're doing a lotta great stuff" and we're just like, "Whoa, okay!"

Russ: So is that right, the company's a year-and-a-half old or how old is the company?

Jason: Well, that was then. I think we're just at three-and-a-half, almost.

Russ: Oh, okay.

Jason: Almost four years.

Russ: Okay, okay.

Jason: You know we're at 35 employees and not bad for startin' with a $2,000.00 investment.

Russ: Okay, yeah.

Patrick: The first year of eligibility, we just made the Ink 500, too, so we're real excited.

Russ: All right! Congratulations!

Jason: Yep, just got back from DC.

Russ: Wow!

Jason: It was awesome.

Russ: Well, that's - you should be proud of that for sure. So but I'm curious and I'm always curious about the business operators and founders that we bring in here, Patrick, what's your background?

Patrick: The short version of it is I've moved to Austin to begin school for graphic design and, at the time, I was working at a music-production house doin' in-house session work and composing for commercials and then movies.

Russ: But you're talkin' about music there and not design.

Patrick: Yeah, just doin' music but, you know, at night, they had a little Apple Mac sittin' around with Photoshop on it and I would play around with that, tryin' to learn more and, eventually, my bosses saw that and thought, "Well, we could sell this. This could be the multimedia division of our company" and so that was just me sittin' at a computer working 24-hours-a-day.

Russ: Right, right.

Patrick: So I did that for a few years and really expanded and gained a wide range of skills because I was the only one doin' that there.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: But after four years it was a startup and it was kind of in the same place it was the day I started and I decided I wanted bigger and better things so I eventually moved on found out that that wide skill set I developed was uncommon and so I went out there and found another job and moved up quickly to a creative director position and Jason started working there shortly after that and that's kinda led to where we are now.

Russ: Great and so Jason what's your background?

Jason: Mine's definitely more on the biz dev side.

Russ: Yeah?

Jason: You know I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs so sittin' around dinner table, normal conversation was P&L talk and looking at financials and talkin' about growth and so I set off in the workplace to try to find somethin' that I was passionate about and held just about every sales job you could imagine, the family was really worried about me for a long time.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: Until it finally clicked that my passion wasn't working at every company.

Russ: Right.

Jason: It was helping every company, every type of company, so just immediately fell into this marketing, advertising, trade-show world and have been blessed with it for how many years now.

Patrick: First year we were working together, how - Jason always thought it was so funny because every time we went in and met a new client and talked about their business, Jason had a story of, like, "Yeah, I did that for a little while and this is what I got out of it." No matter where you're at --

Jason: Yeah, pretty much.

Patrick: You had a story.

Russ: Great! All right, so describe this for audience. What's the best-case scenario for the future, say, like, five, maybe even ten years down the path and if you - maybe you've never done that before but what would BrightBox look like then?

Jason: Sure, yeah, that's daily conversation for us.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: Being a marketing firm we're always looking at it, you know? I don't think Patrick and I have any plans on stopping until our financial goal. We need to be at that $50 million a year.

Russ: Okay.

Jason: And I believe that with our skill set and the way that we're packaging things, we can definitely do it. We've got can't say who but we've got another large group here in Houston that we're looking at merging with that will expand our digital interactive marketing capabilities and so hopefully here, within the next week, we'll be able to make that announcement but I don't see any stopping. We're not one to be complacent.

Russ: All right.

Patrick: Maybe we - like I said, we met Info 500 the first year of eligibility because we'd been focused on growth from the very beginning, you know, when we started it was just Jason and I in a coffee shop but we were talkin' about building processes and how is this business scalable, how do we keep it going and preparing to get that big level.

Russ: So now it's the 2 of you and 35 others in a coffee shop.

Jason: Yeah, that's it, that's it!

Russ: Okay, all right, so but - but I'm curious, too, about this $50 million mark, what would that - I assume that would be multiple cities, multiple markets?

Jason: Multiple cities, multiple markets, you know, we're gonna need to do some acquisitions and some mergers. I think what we try to do from a business plan more than just doing that because we wanna make the money or we wanna have the growth, we wanna practice what we preach, practice what we tell our clients so that when our clients say, "Well, you know, what basis do you have to give us this recommendation," our very first case study's gonna be ourselves.

Russ: Cool.

Jason: And so we, yeah, definitely multiple cities is gonna hafta be one of those things.

Patrick: Yeah $50 million sounds like a big number now but I'm sure we're gonna get there and be like, "Okay, well, let's get it to $300 million" because a few years ago, $2 million, $3 million, $4 million sounded like a big number and then, like, "Well, yeah, let's just keep going."

Russ: Cool.

Patrick: So but, yeah, that's our story.

Russ: All right well before I let you two go let's imagine we have some young, aspiring entrepreneurs tuning in right now that kinda feel your passion and what kinda general advice would you give somebody that says, "Man, I wanna do my own thing at sometime," why don't you start, Patrick?

Patrick: You know I've actually run into this a few times, I've met young designers that are lookin' to start their own agency or they're talkin' to me about it and I always tell 'em, "If you're gonna do it, find a good partner" and I think I lucked out finding one that compliments me, doesn't overlap, and the other thing is, you better love it because that myth of, like, "I'm working for myself I have all this free time, I can do it," I mean that's completely a myth. You hafta wanna do it all the time and enjoy it, you know? It can't be something that you're just doing for the money.

Russ: Right.

Patrick: And again it comes down to execution, we just work it, do it the best and to be successful.

Russ: Jason, do you have anything to add to that?

Jason: Yeah, you know, for me it's always about takin' action. I think so many people who have this dream one day they're gonna do something, man, just do it now. Just do it today and then don't lose sight of why you took that action to begin with because, in six months, when you're in the trenches and it's hurtin', you're gonna wanna bail but, you know, stay focused, stay passionate about what you're doin' and just keep takin' more and more steps.

Patrick: Yeah, I think that's a big thing of see a lot of people are waiting until everything's perfect. Well, I need a perfectly good business plan, I need --

Jason: It's like having a kid, you know? It's never perfect.

Russ: Right, right!

Patrick: You're always workin', it's better. You know I always talk about it's like building a car while you're driving down the freeway, it's better just to start it and start doin' it versus waiting around for that perfect time because it's never the perfect time.

Russ: Well, guys, thank you so much for comin' in today. That's a real cool story and I appreciate you sharin' it with us.

Patrick: Absolutely.

Jason: Thank you so much.

Russ: You bet. That's Jason Arcemont and Patrick McDonough, cofounders of BrightBox and this The BusinessMakerss Show, heard on the radio and seen, online, at thebusinessmakers.com.