Russ: This is The BusinessMakers show, heard on the radio and seen online at thebusinessmakers.com. It's guest time on the show, and our topic right now is search engine optimization, because my guest is the co-founder and president of TopSpot, David Underwood. David, welcome to The BusinessMakers show.

David: Thank you very much.

Russ: Now, I said our topic was search engine optimization. I know you guys do more than that, so tell us about TopSpot.

David: TopSpot was started in 2005. We're based here in Houston, Texas. We have about 40 employees, and we're a search marketing firm. I kind of define us more as a search marketing firm. We do website design and development, but, at the end of the day, our focus is around search marketing. We're very heavy on the analytic side, as well as trying to help companies actually understand what they're getting from their search marketing strategy.

Russ: Okay, and you said you started in 2005.

David: We started in 2005.

Russ: Okay. It's always amazing to me how important search engine marketing is now, in 2011, but how much it seems to be an exact science, particular, now tell me if I'm wrong about this, but particularly now, because for quite a few years, it's depended it seems like totally upon Google and what Google determines makes sense to return and search results. So, how does a search marketing company continuously adjust to that?

David: That is the key, and that's kind of one of the things that we try to focus on, and within our company, we have different individuals who focus on different areas, because it's such an ever changing industry. The way we were doing things six months ago, the way we were doing things three years ago is completely different the way we're doing them now, and the way we'll be doing them six months from now will be completely different. Right now, you're right. I mean everything pretty much drives on Google. I mean everybody will talk about social media and they want to talk about Facebook and Twitter and YouTube, but, at the end of the day, I think you really have to focus on what's happening with Google. It is a 40-person's fulltime job is to kind of keep up with what's going on on Google right now.

Russ: Right, and even Bing depends upon Google, from what I keep reading. Is that kind of accurate?

David: Pretty much.

Russ: Okay.

David: Pretty much. I mean, just looking at generally - we're pretty focused on conversions and where people are getting, not only their leads, but we actually track their phone calls for them, as well, and so if you kind of take traffic and just say, "Okay, where is your traffic coming from?" if you took that main factor out of the equation and still looked at conversions, and actionable data, what these companies are getting, they're getting it from Google. I mean, that's where it's coming from.

Russ: Right.

David: Bing has made a push, and it's something that we don't not put our customers in Bing, but the fact of the matter is is that we kind of say, "Look, let's start with what kind of shape is your website in, where are you at on Google?" and then we go from there.

Russ: Well, I even recently read where sometimes in Bing search results, you can ascertain that they're using a lot of Google's returns on the same phrases and words.

David: A lot of the different search engines will pull from Google search results. The fact of the matter is is the reason why a lot of these different search engines are doing this is because Google provides really good results. I mean that's what's made Google today, is because of repeat users. People go there because they like what they get, and Google has done a fantastic job in - their user loyalty is what is driving all these companies, saying, "We've got to be there," because the users are continuing to go back.

Russ: Right. Okay, and this might be where TopSpot has the opportunity to really differentiate from other companies, but how do you adjust, how do you even know that Google might have certainly changed the criteria and the algorithms they use to return search results? I mean are you continuously watching sort of the same search over and over and seeing when it changes? How do you know?

David: They'll announce when an update is coming, but it's very tightlipped on what that update means. The fact is is that a lot of times people will view Google at times as, "Oh, it's very hard to keep up with," and that sort of thing, but the fact of the matter is is Google wants companies to do things the right way. They want that user to get good search results, to get good websites, so they do offer a lot of tools that our SEO team uses every single day to actually help our customer sites come up, so it's not like it's completely closed-doors. They won't tell you specifics on what percentage your site needs to be focus on this, what percentage here, but, at the end of the day, they do want people to have a good search experience when they come to Google, and it definitely is an advantage to Google to help good websites come up.

Russ: Okay. Well, it's a fascinating category, too, because it's not an exact science -

David: No, it's not.

Russ: - but I would assume to be successful, your customers have to see results -

David: They do.

Russ: - after they engage you, correct?

David: When we first started, and like I said, this is going back into 2005, we were really looking at clicks, and then it got a little bit better and we started looking at, "Okay, how many e?mails did you get?" We evolved, along with the industry, it's gotten a lot better now, to where it really has become a science. Like I said earlier, we are looking at how many phone calls companies are getting, and now even taking it a step further and saying, "We want to listen to these phone calls. What are these people calling your company and actually -

Russ: Wow.

David: - looking for, and that's actually led us to sitting down with our customers and saying, "Your customer service isn't very good. You're spending all this money, time and effort to get your company on Google, you're generating leads, and when they call the company, your receptionist doesn't sound very enthusiastic. Your salesperson puts them on hold for seven minutes," and this is really good data that these companies are able to get now that's going beyond search marketing. Now you're talking about customer service, and really actually what's happening with a company and how you're gonna get more business.

Russ: Right, but how does TopSpot know that? How do you get that information on phone calls? Do you insist that your customer report to you, or do you have people that go sit in -

David: No, we actually have analytics tools now that we can track phone calls.

Russ: Wow.

David: We can define a specific phone number for where that user comes from, so what happens, if somebody goes to Google, and let's say they click on a paid search ad, we actually have a specific phone number, and then there's a Voice over IP that records that phone call.

Russ: Ah, okay.

David: So, we're able to go in and listen to the phone call and actually say, "Hey, this was a good phone call, this was a bad phone call," or, if the customer has dropped the ball in the way that they're handling that phone call, we can give them a heads up and say, "Hey, look. You need to be handling this phone call a little bit better."

Russ: Right. Okay, so -

David: So, the analytics has gotten really good, -

Russ: - okay.

David: - is kind of my point.

Russ: Cool. Wow, that's good. I mean your customers know what they're getting for their money that way, right?

David: Right. Absolutely.

Russ: Okay, really cool. So, when I think of search engine marketing, and I just kind of basic lay it out on the table, it falls into two categories, that category where you go in and you actually bid and buy keywords, and the category that's just regular search results. Which of those categories is most important in -

David: [Laughter]

Russ: - I thought you were gonna react that way.

David: Yeah, yeah.

Russ: And do your customers generally want help in both of them all the time?

David: I'm gonna give you that very sales pitch-y -

Russ: Right.

David: - response here -

Russ: That's okay.

David: - is that we started doing paid search. What was unique about paid search is the fact that if you understand how people are searching today, if we went back ten years ago and understood how people searched, if you were looking for a car in Houston, Texas, you may type in "car dealership, Houston, Texas."

Russ: Right.

David: Now, people are going and they're typing in "I'm looking for a 4-wheel drive Chevy Suburban dealership, Houston, Texas" and getting very specific. Well, the problem with that is that it's a great argument on why you should do paid search and SEO, because you can use that long tail search that we refer to it as, and we can bid on those types of phrases, and then you could actually say, "I'm gonna try it from an SEO perspective in the organics and try to get my company to come up _________ "Chevy dealerships, Houston, Texas."

Russ: Right.

David: So, it really is a combination. A lot of our customers, the great part about paid search is you can kind of get your feet wet. If you are not a true believer, if you go out there and you can - it's a short-term commitment, whether you do it with us, or you can actually go directly to Google and do this, and go up there and bid on some phrases, put some good analytics to it so you can figure out what you're getting. And so paid search is a great way to kind of get your foot in the door, and then we come back in on the SEO side and say, "You know, SEO is this long-term, it's more of the marathon, "but using them together and actually looking at search results and seeing, you know, "I'm coming up under this for paid search, and I'm coming up under this for SEO," you really can kind of cover your bases by using both of them.

Russ: Right. Well, I'm curious about the business, too, in general. Do you often attract a customer for a brief period of time, and they go implement what you said to do and then you don't see them, and then maybe the whole world changes in search and they come back nine months later, or do you have customers that just stay with you in the long term?

David: The majority of our customers have been with us - actually, our very first customer was a company who came and asked us, "How do I get on Google?" They are still a customer today.

Russ: Okay. Wow.

David: We have roughly 400 clients today. Probably about 60 percent of those are in the greater Houston area. Another 40 percent we actually have representative around the country, about a dozen, so we have actually quite a few clients in Chicago, some on the East Coast, some on the West Coast. So, a lot of the clients come to us, and that's one of the things we kind of pride ourselves in, is that our retention rate is very high, even along with short-term contracts.

Russ: Wow.

David: We have 90-day contracts on the paid search side, and we typically just don't lose that many.

Russ: Okay.

David: So, it's been a fun business to be in. It's a growing business, but it's a lot of fun.

Russ: Okay, but a customer, who you clearly earned their respect for and they just stay with you forever, are you continuously sitting down with them and evaluating the results that they're getting, and looking at other potential keywords, and that sort of strategy over and over and over again?

David: Absolutely. I mean we've had customers that started spending $500.00 a month on paid search, and going back into - it feels like a long time ago, but going back into 2004-2005, what was a little unique about that time is that a lot of people weren't doing paid search, and then the companies who were willing to manage paid search at that time, they really only wanted to work with companies who were spending $10,000.00 a month or more. We said, "Hey, look. We'll manage a budget for $500.00 a month, we'll manage a budget for $1,000.00," and a lot of these companies didn't need to spend more than that.

Russ: Right.

David: So, what's unique is that we have companies who started out spending $500.00 a month, some of them at the time, we were so excited about what they were getting, we would tell them, "Hey, we'll spend the budget for you. Just give us the money, and we won't even charge you to manage it," and these customers have kind of grown up and we've seen the evolution of their business online. It's been incredible. So, now, we've got customers who started out spending $500.00 a month, and we've got one particular client in town, he spends about $40,000.00 a month. We've completely revamped his website multiple times now. We're heavy on the analytics for him. We're doing SEO for him. We're getting him into social media. So, the evolution of this has really grown.

Russ: Okay. Cool. Do you have anything cool coming up in the near term?

David: Yeah, we do. We have a relationship with Google, and I know there's a lot of companies out there that have these relationships with Google but ours is a little bit different, and we're kind of talking with Google on how to promote this, but Google came out with a new program this year. It's called a certified premium partner status. To date, the number of companies who actually have this status, it was less than ten, when I talked to them -

Russ: Wow.

David: - the other day.

Russ: Okay.

David: We are one of them, and the way we got involved in this program is that -

Russ: Is that ten nationwide?

David: - ten nationwide.

Russ: Wow. Okay.

David: There's only ten companies that are -

Russ: ___________.

David: - and there's a lot of different partnerships that Google has. They have analytics partnerships, and that sort of thing. But Google is really trying to promote this, and what the focus of this program is is helping small to medium size businesses, and to get more companies into the Google system. The reason we were qualified for this is because we had a high volume of accounts, we have a very high retention rate, and we have very transparent reporting, and those were -

Russ: Wow.

David: - very important things for Google, because they wanted companies that they could sit down and have a partnership with, who were going to put Google in a good light, as well. So, we did an event in Chicago last month, and now we're gonna do it in Houston. Our team will be coming down from Google. It's on July 29, and it's going to be a breakfast, networking, starting at 8:00, and then our Google team will present on just what's new with Google. There's a lot of changes. The presentation we did in Chicago was very good. They talked a little about YouTube Plus One, and just new changes; a lot about mobile.

Russ: Is it focused on any particular industry?

David: It is a little bit more towards B2B, but I can tell you this, if you're a company and you're really curious about what's going on new with Google, as well as the second part of this, I'll talk a little bit more about analytics and how you can truly track your ROI. I think it's a great event to come to. I mean the response that we got from the companies in Chicago was fantastic. So, we're trying to bring something a little bit new, help companies just become more familiar with what's going on.

Russ: Okay, so if we've got somebody tuned in right now that wants to go, what do they need to do?

David: They can visit topspotims.com, sign up there for the Google event. You can definitely give TopSpot a call and we'll get you signed up over the phone. It's July 29, it's the Westin Galleria, and it'll be a great event.

Russ: All right. Well, David, I really appreciate you sharing the story -

David: Thank you.

Russ: - with us about TopSpot.

David: Thank you very much.

Russ: You bet. That's David Underwood, co-founder and president of TopSpot, and this is The BusinessMakers show, heard on the radio and seen online at thebusinessmakers.com.