Russ: This is The BusinessMakers Show, heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com. It is now time for the Aflac BusinessMakers Flashback, brought to you by Aflac, ask about it at work. And for this mornings flashback we are going to roll back to earlier this summer when I went out to Los Angeles and had the opportunity to visit with Brian Liu, co-founder and former CEO of LegalZoom. Brian, thanks for having me, and welcome to The BusinessMakers Show.

Brian: Thank you. Thank you for having me on, Russ.

Russ: You bet. Even though I am certain most of our audience knows Legal Zoom, let's just make sure, and why don't you tell us about Legal Zoom?

Brian: Well, I hope everybody knows Legal Zoom, but it's still pretty surprising to me when I run into people who've heard about us. And we are an online legal document service, and what that means is you can go onto Legal Zoom and you can start a business, you can form a corporation, an S-corporation, an LLC, file a patent to trademark, even make a will or a living trust all online and without the need of an attorney. So you can save a lot of money-that's the real proposition here of Legal Zoom.

Russ: Okay, okay.

Brian: Basically, we're a self-help online legal service.

Russ: And nobody's going to give any legal advice from here, right?

Brian: No. You don't come to us for legal advice, but if you need some simple filings done, we are one of the largest-if not the largest-online incorporation companies. I mean, last year, we helped start 100,000 new businesses.

Russ: Whoa. Cool.

Brian: So-

Russ: Well, that's compatible with the cause here at The BusinessMakers Show. That's-

Brian: Yes.

Russ: -cool-real cool, real cool. Well, take us back to the very beginning. I believe right in the beginning, it was you and Brian Lee, and I read stories about-it was during the dot-com bust and-

Brian: Right.

Russ: -you were eating a lot at-uh-at McDonald's and even ordering the kids' meals is what I read-read that in one story.

Brian: That, and Top Ramen-those were our favorites. Dominos was a reward.

Russ: Okay.

Brian: We basically came up with the idea in late 1999, but it took about five months for us to come up with a business plan and get everything started. So by the time it was March of 2000, we were ready to quit our jobs. At that time, Eddie Hartman had come on board, Bob Shapiro had come on board, and we thought, "This was going to be great. We're going to raise-you know-millions of dollars because the Internet was so hot. It's a great idea. We've got Bob Shapiro who's going to add a lot of credibility to our company, and this was going to be a piece of cake, raising the money." So within two weeks of us giving notice, that's when the stock market collapsed.

Russ: Did you know right then that it was gone? I mean, there were some of us, I think, that kept thinking it was just a little blip and it was going to come back.

Brian: It wasn't obvious to us at that time, well, until that late afternoon because that very late afternoon-I still remember, it was April 14th of 2000-we had scheduled a meeting with our first venture capital meeting, and it was a family friend. About five, six o'clock, we drive over there, and say, "Hey, is so-and-so available?" He comes out and says, "Brian, what are you doing here?" I said, "Hey, Uncle Denny, we had this meeting arranged months ago." He said, "Don't you understand? It's over. It's over. Dot-coms are over." And he kicked us out.

Russ: Oh, my goodness. Okay. Well, now, you're talking about, too, before you left your jobs, you and Brian Lee, and of course, Mr. Shapiro, were all attorneys. I'm curious. Did you both start practicing law, knowing that you might not be practicing law?

Brian: Oh, absolutely.

Russ: Okay.

Brian: Absolutely. That's-I think that's why Brian and I hit it off so well the very first week of law school because we looked at each other and said, "Hey, what are you doing here? You're not going to be an attorney." It's like, "Yeah. What about you?" And that's-and-uh-that's why we became close friends.

Russ: But it seems to me like it was a major, huge step in the right direction when Mr. Robert Shapiro joined Legal Zoom.

Brian: Oh, absolutely.

Russ: Well, tell us about that.

Brian: What happened when we started was that Brian and I knew that we had worked at great law firms and we knew that we were good attorneys, but nobody in the U.S. had heard of Brian Liu or Brian Lee. And most people-probably 95 percent of people or 98 percent of people-haven't heard of the law firms that we worked at, even though they were two of the best in the U.S. So-

Russ: Right.

Brian: -we knew that with legal documents, people had to trust that the documents would work; they had to trust the people behind the company. So we went out and made a list of attorneys-famous attorneys-that people would be able to trust and that people would recognize. And Bob Shapiro was at the top of that list, happened that he lived in Los Angeles, so one night, Brian Lee actually cold called him.

Russ: Cold called him.

Brian: Yes.

Russ: And got him?

Brian: Yeah. Lo and behold, he answered the phone.

Russ: Okay.

Brian: And before he hung up, managed to convince him to at least take a quick meeting with us.

Russ: Cool. Well, there you go, audience. Those cold calls work sometime.

Brian: Yeah.

Russ: Was it the first meeting? I mean, what-did it feel like he was definitely going to sign up and do it?

Brian: Well, we were really nervous, so we had prepared weeks for this meeting, and we were shaking. But-uh-we explained the business, we explained what we were trying to achieve, and-you know-he said, "Look-you know-I get pitched all the time on new businesses, and this is one of the first that I've heard that has seemed to make sense. It makes sense with my values of what I believe in, and I think it makes business sense, so let's continue this conversation." And so we scheduled a follow on, and then after a series of meetings, he agreed to join us.

Russ: Cool. Cool story. Wow.

Brian: Yeah, and we hadn't even quit or jobs at that time. And the great thing about Bob joining us was when Robert Shapiro joined us, it gave us the confidence to then say, "Okay. We're really going to take this seriously. We're going to leave our jobs, and let's make this our full-time-this is the full-time activity that we're going to pursue and we're really going to-you know-make this happen."

Russ: How many employees do you have now?

Brian: Over 300.

Russ: Wow. So right now, how many transactions do you do on a regular day?

Brian: On a regular day, we're doing over 1,000 transactions.

Russ: Well, for me, when I look at your product offering, I can divide it into the business category and the personal category, how do those two break out these days?

Brian: It's a little bit more tilted towards business. Traditionally, it's always been about half personal, half business; lately, it's skewed a little bit more business. And I'll tell you what's interesting is that during this period of economic difficulties, that part of our business-new business formation-is growing faster than-than personal. And I think it's the fact that people might have gotten laid off and, in a way, people are looking for new opportunities. They see opportunities and the entrepreneurial spirit is really alive and well in the U.S., and I'm really happy for that.

Russ: That's so cool. Well, Brian, was there, like, an inspirational moment-a mentor, a teacher, a movie, a book-that really sort of played a role in getting you to where you are today?

Brian: You know, actually, there is. At that time, I was working at a law firm, and I didn't really see myself as an entrepreneur, but I had a good friend who had left his job at DIRECTV and started a company that was an online marketplace for independent films. And so when I talked to him, I thought, "Well, this is an interesting idea," but I didn't think it was going to be that great. But then they received millions of dollars from a very big venture capital fund, and I thought to myself, "Wow. If he can do that, then why can't I?"

Russ: Okay. Well, Brian, what made you think it was going to work?

Brian: People spend-Americans, anyway-spend over 100 billion dollars a year on law, but they don't know who to turn to. Something happened when I graduated from law school, and that is all my friends and family-my parents, my relatives-came out of the woodworks and they started asking me, "Brian, Brian. Now that you've finished law school, can you help me-uh-write a will? Can you help me start a business or file a small claims?" So right then, I realized-you know-people have these needs, and they don't know who to turn to, and they certainly did not want to spend the 300 dollars an hour that my law firm was charging me out at as a first year because-you know-we-I didn't know anything coming out of law school.

Russ: How close is the product that Legal Zoom offers today? How close is that to the original vision that you and Brian Lee had?

Brian: It's actually very, very close because when we started, we didn't aspire just to be simple legal documents-that's not what we really envisioned. We envisioned using that as a springboard to something-uh-much more, and really positioning Legal Zoom as a brand where people go to when they have any legal need. We're moving in that direction right now by expanding our services. We're doing attorney-assisted services, for example, where we feel that some documents, it's more difficult for you to do entirely on your own, and we're working with different attorneys to still create something that's innovative and affordable. That, overall, is our mission is to create new, innovative, and affordable legal solutions so that all Americans-you know-regardless of socioeconomic status have the-you know-protection and the benefits of the law.

Russ: Brian, so it's interesting-this advanced service that you mentioned-it still-it seems to me like it's tied to a document and it's like, maybe it's a complex document-

Brian: Right.

Russ: -procedure in-

Brian: Right.

Russ: -in-in which you would have attorneys that would agree to help them-them-

Brian: That's right.

Russ: -present it.

Brian: That's right.

Russ: That's cool. Okay. Well, Brian, before I let you go, I have to ask you this question: Let's say we have an aspiring entrepreneur that's listening to your interview right now and is-is all jazzed up about-

Brian: Uh-hunh (Affirmative).

Russ: -what you've done, and-and even how you explained why you knew it would work. What kind of general advice would you give somebody like that?

Brian: When you're starting any business, be ultra, ultra practical in everything that you do. Always take the more conservative and sure route; don't take too many chances; and most importantly, don't overspend.

Russ: Okay and that wraps up my discussion with Brian Liu, to hear the whole interview just go to thebusinessmakers.com and in the search box just type L-I-U. And that wraps up this mornings Aflac BusinessMakers Flashback, brought to you by Aflac, ask about it at work. And now its time for another Advantage Point, a special advantage point because we are going to itemize the new cool relationship that The BusinessMakers has with LegalZoom. So here's Katie Laird.

Katie: This is Katie Laird, with another Advantage Point, providing real-world advice and hard dollar savings for turning your business idea into a real business...

So you're ready to take that big step, to put your idea to work...and you're stretching every dollar you have to the max.

If this scenario fits you or someone you know, tune in to this Big Dollar Bonus Advantage Point....after all, this is our sweet spot.

First, Consider setting up your company by forming your corporation or LLC by using the convenient legal document offerings of LegalZoom, and save big bucks, and I do mean big bucks. And then, as an added incentive to make your money go further still, enter BizMakers in the referral code and save even more. That's BizMakers, B - I - Z - M - A - K - E - R - S.

And then to help you get your new business story out in the market, The BusinessMakers will create a professionally produced audio commercial for your new company for free. Feature it on your site, put it on the radio, use it as your Elevator Pitch, Tweet it to the world and make your company known.

That's right, sign up for the LegalZoom products you need, get a discount by using the BizMakers referral code, and get a professionally produced company commercial to share the story of your new business.

Check out the details for this low cost way to launch and market your business at TheBusinessMakers.com/LegalZoom.

Big Bonus good luck to you in your new endeavor. To read and comment on this Advantage point, go to The BusinessMakers.com

Russ: Alright stay tuned in for our feature guest segment where I sit down.with George Foreman, two time heavy weight boxing champ. This is The BusinessMakers Show heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com