Russ: This is a BusinessMakers WebXtra, a continuation of the radio broadcast, with Judith Cone, Vice President of Emerging Strategies at the Kaufman Foundation. Judith, tell us about entrepreneurship internationally.

Judith: Well I've had the chance, as my colleagues have, of going around the world and seeing the great need and opportunity that entrepreneurship can bring to the issues that we're facing. In many countries there's a great hunger for some of the things that we take for granted. So while entrepreneurship is pretty pervasive in our universities in the United States, its just beginning to take hold.

Russ: Well, that's interesting. We've had quite a few immigrant success story guests on our show that came to US, and boy, they just seemed to really have a drive for entrepreneurship of extraordinary proportions. And we do have an occasional entrepreneur who's already trying to do business in India and China, we hear those a lot. But your description is around the world there's still huge opportunity for experiencing this. Correct?

Judith: Absolutely. I think what we see, when we see the immigrant entrepreneurs being successful in the US, is they came here because the climate was right.

Russ: Okay.

Judith: And the barriers were too significant for them to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish, and they knew they had to emigrate here. Countries like China and India are trying to change that game, and they're saying stay home.

Russ: Right.

Judith: And they're trying to create a climate. Now, some of them are more successful than others. I think we acknowledge that China and India are really surging forward. You look at Singapore. And places all over the Middle East, all over the world. They're saying, we want to keep you here, and we're going to make a great climate. This is great for the world. We kind of worry here in the United States about the loss of the immigrant talent. That is a serious issue for the US, but there's a great desire around the world.

Russ: Well, I had the sort of picture of India and China, but I assume maybe from what you're saying too, that there are many other parts of the world that have the desire and aspire for a successful entrepreneurship climate and culture, but it's way behind even India and China. Would that be right?

Judith: Yes. I was recently in Jakarta, in Indonesia, and this is the fourth most populous country in the world. There is a need, a desire for entrepreneurship. So one of the leading entrepreneurs who grew up as a poor boy living in challenging circumstances to become one of the most wealthy persons in Indonesia, through real estate. And he has created a foundation, the Japutra Foundation, and he wants to advance entrepreneurship. He's focusing on young people. So I attended the first ever educators conference. There were almost a thousand educators of high school students. And to see the passion of these teachers have, and then to meet their students... the students are on fire. It's the first time somebody has really said something to them that says, this is how you can actually have sustainability in your own life, and we're going to teach you some of the tools. So it's very inspiring to go and see what's happening, especially when you're with the young people. Of course I mentioned earlier, Global Entrepreneurship Week is the vehicle that tries to make all that happen.

Russ: It sounds like an awakening is taking place.

Judith: Well there's so much need. When you drive up and down the streets of Jakarta and you see people living in huts and you see great wealth also. The disparity there, and the great need. The young people see that, they live that every day. This is not a theory for them. This is real. They want to use this as a tool to make their lives better.

Russ: We've also had several micro-lending success stories on the business makers show, too. Do you see that, as well, playing a role?

Judith: I think that's a very important piece of it. We like to talk about the entrepreneurial ecosystem. There is a role for micro-enterprise. That is a great way for a person, a family, and a village to bring themselves out of abject poverty. It's very successful. We had Professor Yunus here, at the Foundation, the Nobel prizewinner. Now if you leave micro-enterprise, then you go through small business, mom and pop stores and you get into growth companies... I think the only way to change the economy for a country is to have strong sectors in every element of the ecosystem. It's easier to do at the lower level, I think, than it is at the growth level. Where we see a lot of effort is in that lower end, which we think is very important. But we also have to do something about the growth companies, or the whole system won't work.

Russ: Well it seems like today, just watching what's happening with the global economy, it's kind of an indication that perhaps we all might be connected better than ever, even though there's some countries way behind, it seems like we all suffer together these days.

Judith: Well, I think it's undeniable though we're so interwoven, especially financial markets, that what happens to one of us affects all of us. Sometimes we think it's a zero-sum game, that we need to get ours and not worry about others but actually that's the opposite. If every country becomes a stronger country, then the United States is stronger, too.

Russ: I couldn't agree with you more. What concerns me often, though, is the way our elected officials in Washington sometimes don't seem to understand that. And the protectionism -- of course everybody's sensitive to sectors losing jobs and stuff, but it's a little bit frightening also, when we're in a competitive economy that we want our country to at least be competitive. Do you agree with that?

Judith: I do agree with that. I think that's an outgrowth of how difficult it is to get elected and stay elected. One plays the game sometimes to make that happen when it's not always the best thing for the country. We definitely think that's a serious issue. We do work in the area of policy, and we back that up with a lot of dollars into good research. We want to understand the issues. We want to communicate what we learn to policy makers.

Russ: Well, we've already sort of ventured into this controversial subject of the global economy. What's your perspective, what's the Kaufman Foundation perspective on the impact of having this sort of capital-poor situation, the credit markets are tough, is it time for an aspiring entrepreneur to perhaps go into hibernating?

Judith: What we have learned over time, in watching cycles of down times, is that we get greater entrepreneurship activity during down times. Because there's less opportunity. So if you get laid off, and you're in a down cycle, well, you're not going to be going out and finding just the next new job. A lot of people turn to entrepreneurship during the downtime, which is actually really good for the economy. We have been talking a lot in articles. Carl Schramm, our president, has spoken about this, and Bob Leyton [sp], our leading economist, saying that entrepreneurship is the way out of the crisis. That we have to grow our way out, not protect our way or subsidize our way.

Russ: Well, I think that's compatible with Thomas Friedman's new initiative, too. He claims it's going to take entrepreneurs and innovation to get there. We have a basis for the business makers show that's in the energy capital of the planet. It's really interesting there to see the innovation that's taking place in alternative energy. There's a lot of people that probably fear that with the decrease in the price of fossil fuel, that that might stop. But it really is sort of a cool thing. Does the Kaufman Foundation ever focus on specific areas of innovation, like energy?

Judith: Yes, we do actually. We have migrated from general entrepreneurship to more specific areas. So we have initiatives around clean tech, bioscience, life sciences. You begin to see us taking more narrow vertical views of certain areas. Again, I spoke about growth, and how difficult it is to really get into that segment and help that area. Because it's pretty sophisticated. When you start talking about growth companies versus a micro-enterprise development, that takes a lot more sophistication in how you actually make that happen. We have decided that looking at verticals like clean tech is very important.

Russ: I'm sure that we have quite a few listeners that are wanting to know a little bit more about Judith Cone. After all, you're right in the middle of our sweet spot. Why don't you give our listeners a little snapshot of your background?

Judith: I let life happen to me rather than direct it, which I actually think is more the norm than not. So my first career was as a learning disabilities teacher. I was 22 years old. I didn't know it, but I was an innovator. I had no idea. But I went to work in a very poor district and they had not one thing. So I had to build a program with no money. And so I found a way. Then I had a family, stayed home for while taking care of my children, and decided I could build a business because then I could control my life. I could have a way to take care of my children that way. So I built a business, and I knew nothing about what I was trying to do, and I had no resources. But I did it, and I was successful at it. Again, you know, I did it and I wasn't aware that that was anything innovative.

Russ: Okay.

Judith: And then, I retired from a business and thought, the one thing I haven't done is working a not-for-profit, and I understand Mr. Kaufman is going to invest his money into entrepreneurship. And that's what I want to do because I think that's the greatest way to help other people. So I made my case and got hired. I didn't have any idea how to do it, and yes, for once finally, there were resources here. It's been such a great journey over... I've been here 14 years... to really see his dream come alive. At first we did a lot of experimentation. It's a constant learning. This organization has a culture of innovation. We live that every day. We feel so honored and blessed that we have the gift that Mr. Kaufman gave us, of his money. But we also have the inspiration and the role model that he left us. We come in every day and say, don't we have the greatest opportunity in the world.

Russ: Well, I can tell that you're very passionate about it, and that sort of seems to be in the air here the Kaufman Foundation. Before I let you go, my last question. Tell me what sort of advice you would give to an aspiring young entrepreneur, who perhaps has taken a course at college in just one of these broad areas at one of these schools offers an entrepreneur course to an English major. And suddenly this aspiring entrepreneur has gotten excited. What advice would you give him?

Judith: If you are not passionate about what you're attempting, stop now. If you're in it for the money, that will not sustain you in the dark hours. Because there will be dark hours. This is really difficult. One of the things that we do... I mentioned the fast track program... One of the things we do is teach people the beginnings of feasibility study. That's where we find out if they're passionate. What they reveal to themselves is, this isn't for me. We always say, we just gave you the best gift. You don't have a second mortgage taken out.

Russ: Right.

Judith: Do your due diligence. Really find out if you really care about this, because this may not be right for you. Find out, fail quickly, fail cheaply. Then if you are passionate about it, you have to live in paradox all the time as an entrepreneur. You have to be doggedly determined, but you have to listen to the market. The list of paradoxes for an entrepreneur is amazing. What research says is your idea is going to morph on average seven times. So you can't just dig your heels and say I know it all. You have to be a constant learner, and you have to listen and be in touch with the market, and the customers. I think if you do that.. or if you are revolutionary and there are no markets and no customers then you have to invent that market. But if you're not passionate none of it will work.

Russ: Judith, I really appreciate you giving us your time this morning.

Judith: Thank you, it was a pleasure.

Russ: We've been speaking with Judith Cone, Vice President of Emerging Strategies with the Kaufman Foundation. And that wraps up this BusinessMakers WebXtra. You are listening to the BusinessMakers Show, heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com.