Russ: This is "The BusinessMakers Show," heard here and online at TheBusinessMakers.com. And now, it's time for the Aflac BusinessMakers Flashback, brought to you by Aflac, "ask about it at work." And as I mentioned in the show lineup, today we're going to feature some of our favorites from 2008. And for this morning's Flashback, we're going to roll back to Episode #141, earlier in 2008, when I got to sit down face-to-face with Steve Wozniak, founder of Apple. We enter the discussion where I asked Steve to tell us what he was like as a young teenager.

Steve: God, junior high, I was a super bright math student. I won the math award for my schools, including the junior high. I built some computer projects. I had stumbled into first electronics project in elementary school, getting a ham radio license, and then I stumbled on a computer journal that you'd never, ever find in the world. Nobody knew what they were. You couldn't buy a part. You couldn't buy a chip. You couldn't buy any of the stuff computers were made out of at any electronics store. But, I started working with a pencil and paper. Everyone has a pencil and paper. I taught myself how to design complete computers. I lucked out and just got enough, barely enough information, to do that. So I built some projects out of transistors.

Russ: What age were you at this time?

Steve: Well, I was building, actually even a tic-tac-toe computer can play tic-tac-toe, in sixth grade, whatever age that is.

Russ: Okay.

Steve: I don't keep track of what age is what grade.

Russ: Okay.

Steve: Probably 11 or 12.

Russ: Yeah.

Steve: I built my ham radio in sixth grade also. And that was where you had to solder together all the parts and bolt things together and put on strings for the dials and antennas on the roof and dial in the beep, beep, beep. I did Morse code. So, I was all that at a very early age. But by eighth grade, I did a really incredible computer project which was a machine that could add and subtract in the computer language of ones and zeros, and it lit up lights. You toggled in your input, your numbers on switches, and lights lit up. And looking back on that, I didn't know it at the time. I knew that it was a great project that I knew how to do it, but I didn't realize it was exactly on the track to eventually designing real computers, or that I'd ever have a job doing it. And I didn't think, even in high school once I taught myself how to design computers, I didn't think there were jobs. Computers are designed in some strange places that some universities have called "research," but I don't know what a research building is.

Russ: When you made this one, were you doing it just because you were interested, or was it like a science fair or was it a project?

Steve: It was a science fair. Yeah.

Russ: Okay.

Steve: I did it as a science fair and won great awards and teacher commendations. It's good when teachers think you're good at science or math or electronics.

Russ: Yeah.

Steve: Because then they think you're a genius. So, you're the brilliant genius at everything. So, I think they gave me better grades in history and English too.

Russ: Okay. From there, I wanted to move on to get Steve to tell us about when he really started working seriously with existing computer systems, and this is what he had to say.

Steve: In high school, I was designing every single mini-computer that was made in the late 1960's.

Russ: Okay.

Steve: By companies like Verian, IBM, Data General, Digital Equipment Corporation, Hewlett-Packard even. I would get their manuals. I'd call them up. I'd get them to send me a manual, and then I'd sit down, on paper, design my version of it. Never could build one. I could never afford one part, not even one chip, but I just loved doing it as a game. I made up this game, "Can I design it better than I did the time before?"

Russ: Wow.

Steve: So, I counted the number of chips, 78. "Can I do it in 75 chips?" And then I'd come back another weekend. "Can I do it in 72?" I'd look through all the chip manuals, and I really trained my mind to think much deeper than most people ever do.

Russ: And were you doing this all the time totally by yourself?

Steve: Totally by myself. Really couldn't ever show or share. Once in awhile, I'd run into one other person that knew digital, and I had a friend in high school, Alan Baum and another guy--really bright guy. I forget who he was. He was related to one of the bright, famous physicists of all time. He came to our high school just briefly, and he knew that they were logic diagrams. He couldn't, like, look at it and see had I done a good design or not. But my designs got so good that I was using tricks that were in my head that I knew would never be in any books, So, I knew I was a good designer of computers. I did not think that was going to be my job. My job was going to be designing good televisions and radios.

Russ: Well, I do know that you did start getting jobs. In fact, one of your former bosses has been a guest on this show--Nolan Bushnell, the founder of Pong and the founder of Atari. And, I believe you and Steve Jobs worked for him at Atari.

Steve: I love Nolan so much for what he did to the world. To think that arcade games that you see everywhere--in every entertainment place, like pool halls and bowling, billiards--that industry all started with Nolan.

Russ: Right.

Steve: You know going out there, taking a big risk, building these machines and discovering the price he could make a reasonable game at, Pong, could sell a lot of them.

Russ: He gave you and Steve credit for a game called "Breakout." Would that be accurate as well? Do you remember that?

Steve: Well, I give him credit for coming up with the idea. He had the idea of a one-player Pong where the ball bounces off a brick. So, he really should get the main credit. Now, when Steve Jobs came to me, Steve Jobs needed some money quick, I think, and he said, "We have to do it in four days." Back then, a game was hardware.

Russ: Right.

Steve: It wasn't software. You connected little wires from pins on chips that went up and down in voltage, and you got the right voltages out at the end. It might show up on a television set as balls and paddles. So four days and nights, that was a six-man-month job, and I said, "I'll try." I knew that I was like the best there was at this job.

Russ: Yeah.

Steve: And we did it. We turned over a working one in four days and nights, no sleep, mononucleosis for both of us, Steve Jobs and I. I designed it all, and he bread-boarded it. He hooked the wires together from my design.

Russ: Okay. From there, I had to get his perspective on Steve Jobs. So, I asked him what it was like in the beginning. Steve Wozniak was obviously the engineer, and Steve Jobs the marketeer. And here's what he said.

Steve: When we met, we were both partial engineers. Not engineers, but you know, before you're an engineer, I was really a designer. I could design a new piece of equipment. He could understand the chips and build some simple little circuits, but was a step less than an engineer. Good technician, good one for looking at somebody's design, even, and finding a flaw.

Russ: Right.

Steve: So, he would have been an engineer. He didn't go in that direction; and the entire time I knew him, he didn't become an engineer. But once we met up, if it came to something digital, I was so far ahead of him doing such advanced projects. Eventually, I built a little TV terminal using my television that could get onto the ARPANET, the forerunner of today's Internet.

Russ: Right.

Steve: And so, Steve would see these things, and he started becoming more marketing. What can we do this? How can we bring it to people? What are some new, great advances we can put in it? You have to understand the technology well to be the melder. I give him the major credit for everything in life, the reason we have computers. All I want to be known for is as a great designer. But Steve was able to understand the engineering side and meld it with the marketing and the operations and the passion to drive it to have a company that makes money, that sells lots of things to people. He wanted to be one of those great people; and really, I think it's more important. I stayed totally in engineering. I said, "Hands off. I'm not going to step on your feet" and I know what color to make it better than you do to anybody who's been doing it for 15 years. But Steve wasn't afraid to step on everybody's toes. "Let's do it this way, instead."

Russ: Okay, and that wraps up this discussion with Steve Wozniak, founder of Apple. To hear the complete interview with Steve, just go TheBusinessMakers.com and up in the search box up in the right-hand corner, type in W-O-Z-N-I-A-K. And now for another Advantage Point. So let's welcome Katie Laird.

Katie: This is Katie Laird with another Advantage Point, providing upgrade advice for turning your small business into a not so small business.

As a small business owner, you might find yourself overwhelmed by software fees, installation, and licensing nightmares. You have a business to run. There's no reason you should shell out thousands of bucks and still be frustrated with what you are buying. That's where open source software comes in. You have many options for less expensive and high quality office applications that will keep you productive and in the black.

For instance, check out the free software suite called "OpenOffice" at OpenOffice.org. It is a reliable set of tools that allow you to open all documents from Microsoft Office and edit them with the same functionality but at a great price of $0.00. Install on 1 or 1,000 machines. You never have to worry about buying another license or copy. Better yet, if you have ever struggled through a corporate help phone line's inaccessibility, OpenOffice has a community of tens of thousands of people who share feedback, offer tutorials, and give tips for free online.

Another great suite of office products is one that might surprise you. If you have a Gmail account at gmail.com from Google, you already have access to a serious arsenal of office tools--all for free. Google Docs, found at docs.google.com, brings you loads of functionality all in one place--word processing, presentation creation, spreadsheet editing, and even online forms to send surveys. There's also a handy offline feature that ensures that, even when you're away from the Internet, you'll have all of your information handy to work on. Collaborating with Google couldn't be easier. You are only one click away from inviting colleagues to access specific documents and add their two bits as well. When you take these office applications and combine them with Google's email, chat, online calendar, and hundreds of other products, you find yourself enjoying a one-stop shop for all your business needs. And again, at the best price of them all, free.

So, next time you find yourself with a Microsoft-induced headache, remember there is life outside the software box. Check out the alternatives and save yourself time, money, and lots of frustration.

To read and comment on this Advantage Point, visit us online at TheBusinessMakers.com website.

Russ: And that wraps up this morning's Aflac BusinessMakers Flashback, brought to you by Aflac, "ask about it at work." You're listening to "The BusinessMakers Show" heard here and online at TheBusinessMakers.com.